I was a Boiler Tech in the late 80’s in the Navy. I’m really digging in to the grid and how wind/solar are actually creating problems for reliability. I am thinking about all the things they taught us and what I learned first hand about steam power to generate electricity and propulsion thru the steam powered turbine engines. Substack is amazing, thank you for sharing your knowledge!
I used to work as an electrical engineer (more electronics than power), but never thought about how synchronization becomes a problem with solar and wind power. That makes total sense. I knew there were lots of other problems, but didn't think of that one.
FYI, there are other ways to achieve inertia, without active control. One of these is using a small amount of the grid's energy to essentially turn a great big grid-connected flywheel, mimicking the effect that gas turbines have, while using very little energy and with zero emissions (other than the proportion of the energy they use that comes from non-renewables).
From electrical engineer Kilovar: “they [flywheels] are expensive up front, they cost money to run, and they do require regular maintenance. So utilities have moved away from from them because of cost. They typically needed a pony engine or motor to get them up to speed before they were closed to power.
Yes, I've heard of the use of flywheels, but haven't researched their efficacy. I haven't seen much mention of them, so am wondering why. Is there some catch? If I have time, I'll check into it - unless you can save me some time? How often are flywheels used with renewables? How expensive are they? What percentage of energy is taken from the wind or solar?
Of course this is a telling argument against contaminating the grid with intermittent inputs but it is a secondary problem and it is too complicated for people in the street to follow.
The primary problem is allowing wind and solar onto the grid in the first place and that would not have happened if the authorities had taken account of wind droughts. I think, and hope, that the wind drought problem can be explained to everyone to generate massive pressure on lawmakers to abandon subsidies and mandates for intermittent energy.
I hope it is not offensive to keep posting this piece of boilerplate in comments because I think it needs to go viral unless there is some flaw in it which has not yet been pointed out.
A warning from The Energy Realists of Australia
Around the Western world, subsidised and mandated wind and solar power have been displacing conventional power in the electricity supply. Consequently, most of the grids in the west are moving towards a tipping point where the lights will flicker at nights when the wind is low. This is a “frog in the saucepan” effect and it only starts to worry people when it is too late. Too late for Britain and Germany certainly.
Consider the ABC of intermittent energy generation.
A. Input to the grid must continuously match the demand.
B. The continuity of RE is broken on nights with little or no wind.
C. There is no feasible or affordable large-scale storage to bridge the gaps.
Therefore, the green transition is impossible with current storage technology.
The rate of progress towards the tipping point will accelerate as demand is swelled by AI and electrification at large.
In Australia, the transition to unreliable wind and solar power has just hit the wall, while Britain and Germany have passed the tipping point and entered a “red zone,” keeping the lights on precariously with imports and deindustrialization to reduce demand.
The meteorologists never issued wind drought warnings and the irresponsible authorities never checked the wind supply! They even missed the Dunkelflautes that must have been known to mariners and millers for centuries!
There is an urgent need to find out why the meteorologists failed to warn us about wind droughts and why energy planners didn’t check. Imagine embarking on a major irrigation project without forensic investigation of the water supply including historical rainfall figures.
Thanks for the excellent and thorough reply, Rafe. I'll copy and save it for further use of some of the points to help you get the word out, but I'm taking a little time out until after New Years Day.
I agree that my piece on grid inertia is still too complicated to interest the average person, although I was trying to make it non-technical enough so anyone could understand it if they really try. But you're right - just emphasizing the ABCs and wind droughts should be enough to turn the tide, once enough people see the obvious truth.
I don't disagree with anything, except that it's more complex than that. Remember imaginary numbers? In Electrical grids, they are more than merely useful. It turns out that, while non-engineers talk about power, they (almost?) always talk in terms of Watts--but there's more. Wattage is resistive load. If the only things running were toasters and incandescent light bulbs, the Watts (or KW or MW would be an accurate descriptor. However, actual power includes inductive, or reactive loads, in addition to the resistive load. The inductive load functions as effectively at right angles to the resistive load. It is graphically represented using a third axis (akin to a z axis on a two-dimensional xy graph), and the total load is represented by a vector that includes the resistive, or xy load added to the inductive i-dimension load. Total power is not reported in terms of Watts, but VA (volts times amps, which in a two-dimensional resistive system would be equivalent to Watts), representing both xy and i dimensions.
It's been nearly 50 years since I took that course, so I'm likely to have explained it less than clearly.
On Enterprise, more than one electrical generator supplied power to the ship. The operators would manually align resistive and reactive voltage and phase in order to put the generator on line, supplying power. I remember watching a new, less proficient operator throw the switch when not all the parameters were aligned. Wow, what a blast! The jolt as the two systems aligned all the parameters shook the space we were in.
Fortunately, the system was well designed, no damage was done, and the generator's controls put all to rights within about one cycle of the electrical wave. But when you try having a bunch of amateurs link their unsophisticated, poorly engineered generating systems (supplying unregulated solar- or wind-generated power to an active grid--well, it will not look good for the home team, if you catch my drift. Some connections will likely work out, but I predict a lot of damage and physical injury and even death.
Merry Christmas 🎄 Love learning why/why not certain things work. Looking forward to learning more next year.
Thanks. Me too - I’ve learned more from substack than 4 yrs of college. LOL
I was a Boiler Tech in the late 80’s in the Navy. I’m really digging in to the grid and how wind/solar are actually creating problems for reliability. I am thinking about all the things they taught us and what I learned first hand about steam power to generate electricity and propulsion thru the steam powered turbine engines. Substack is amazing, thank you for sharing your knowledge!
I used to work as an electrical engineer (more electronics than power), but never thought about how synchronization becomes a problem with solar and wind power. That makes total sense. I knew there were lots of other problems, but didn't think of that one.
Same here - if I hadn't thought about that before, I figured I wasn't alone, so wanted to share the info.
FYI, there are other ways to achieve inertia, without active control. One of these is using a small amount of the grid's energy to essentially turn a great big grid-connected flywheel, mimicking the effect that gas turbines have, while using very little energy and with zero emissions (other than the proportion of the energy they use that comes from non-renewables).
From electrical engineer Kilovar: “they [flywheels] are expensive up front, they cost money to run, and they do require regular maintenance. So utilities have moved away from from them because of cost. They typically needed a pony engine or motor to get them up to speed before they were closed to power.
Yes, I've heard of the use of flywheels, but haven't researched their efficacy. I haven't seen much mention of them, so am wondering why. Is there some catch? If I have time, I'll check into it - unless you can save me some time? How often are flywheels used with renewables? How expensive are they? What percentage of energy is taken from the wind or solar?
Of course this is a telling argument against contaminating the grid with intermittent inputs but it is a secondary problem and it is too complicated for people in the street to follow.
The primary problem is allowing wind and solar onto the grid in the first place and that would not have happened if the authorities had taken account of wind droughts. I think, and hope, that the wind drought problem can be explained to everyone to generate massive pressure on lawmakers to abandon subsidies and mandates for intermittent energy.
I hope it is not offensive to keep posting this piece of boilerplate in comments because I think it needs to go viral unless there is some flaw in it which has not yet been pointed out.
A warning from The Energy Realists of Australia
Around the Western world, subsidised and mandated wind and solar power have been displacing conventional power in the electricity supply. Consequently, most of the grids in the west are moving towards a tipping point where the lights will flicker at nights when the wind is low. This is a “frog in the saucepan” effect and it only starts to worry people when it is too late. Too late for Britain and Germany certainly.
https://newcatallaxy.blog/2023/07/11/approaching-the-tipping-point/
Consider the ABC of intermittent energy generation.
A. Input to the grid must continuously match the demand.
B. The continuity of RE is broken on nights with little or no wind.
C. There is no feasible or affordable large-scale storage to bridge the gaps.
Therefore, the green transition is impossible with current storage technology.
The rate of progress towards the tipping point will accelerate as demand is swelled by AI and electrification at large.
In Australia, the transition to unreliable wind and solar power has just hit the wall, while Britain and Germany have passed the tipping point and entered a “red zone,” keeping the lights on precariously with imports and deindustrialization to reduce demand.
The meteorologists never issued wind drought warnings and the irresponsible authorities never checked the wind supply! They even missed the Dunkelflautes that must have been known to mariners and millers for centuries!
https://www.flickerpower.com/images/The_endless_wind_drought_crippling_renewables___The_Spectator_Australia.pdf
There is an urgent need to find out why the meteorologists failed to warn us about wind droughts and why energy planners didn’t check. Imagine embarking on a major irrigation project without forensic investigation of the water supply including historical rainfall figures.
https://quadrant.org.au/news-opinions/climate-change/no-gusts-no-glory/
A LIST OF BRIEFING NOTES FROM THE ENERGY REALISTS
https://www.flickerpower.com/index.php/search/categories/general/list-of-briefing-notes
Thanks for the excellent and thorough reply, Rafe. I'll copy and save it for further use of some of the points to help you get the word out, but I'm taking a little time out until after New Years Day.
I agree that my piece on grid inertia is still too complicated to interest the average person, although I was trying to make it non-technical enough so anyone could understand it if they really try. But you're right - just emphasizing the ABCs and wind droughts should be enough to turn the tide, once enough people see the obvious truth.
A basic science class doesn't help me much, either.
I don't disagree with anything, except that it's more complex than that. Remember imaginary numbers? In Electrical grids, they are more than merely useful. It turns out that, while non-engineers talk about power, they (almost?) always talk in terms of Watts--but there's more. Wattage is resistive load. If the only things running were toasters and incandescent light bulbs, the Watts (or KW or MW would be an accurate descriptor. However, actual power includes inductive, or reactive loads, in addition to the resistive load. The inductive load functions as effectively at right angles to the resistive load. It is graphically represented using a third axis (akin to a z axis on a two-dimensional xy graph), and the total load is represented by a vector that includes the resistive, or xy load added to the inductive i-dimension load. Total power is not reported in terms of Watts, but VA (volts times amps, which in a two-dimensional resistive system would be equivalent to Watts), representing both xy and i dimensions.
It's been nearly 50 years since I took that course, so I'm likely to have explained it less than clearly.
On Enterprise, more than one electrical generator supplied power to the ship. The operators would manually align resistive and reactive voltage and phase in order to put the generator on line, supplying power. I remember watching a new, less proficient operator throw the switch when not all the parameters were aligned. Wow, what a blast! The jolt as the two systems aligned all the parameters shook the space we were in.
Fortunately, the system was well designed, no damage was done, and the generator's controls put all to rights within about one cycle of the electrical wave. But when you try having a bunch of amateurs link their unsophisticated, poorly engineered generating systems (supplying unregulated solar- or wind-generated power to an active grid--well, it will not look good for the home team, if you catch my drift. Some connections will likely work out, but I predict a lot of damage and physical injury and even death.
Great story about your time on the Enterprise.
Also I really like when you add your sketches to help explain things!
Sometimes it’s easier to make a sketch than it is to find the right picture for what I’m trying to say.
Merry Christmas!